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Thread: Who knows their buttons

  1. #1
    Exalted One giant056's Avatar
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    Who knows their buttons

    Here's another one for you Bob, I'm not sure what it is but I am guessing it's pre civil war but don't know for sure

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  2. #2
    Super Moderator deolslyfox's Avatar
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    The motto is "I come forth and look back". It is the Ramsay family motto .... That's about all I could find ....
    If there's anything I hate worse than diggin' pulltabs, its missin' a gold ring.

  3. #3
    Platinum Member VWandSTUDEBAKER's Avatar
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    Coinmaster 4000/D Series 2 5900/Di Pro SL, Surfmaster PI, Beach Hunter ID, Vision with V3International upgrade. I have stock 10DD, 6x10, 4x6 DD, Super 12 coils. Whites TRX pin pointer.
    Very interesting !! As fox says, its the Ramsey family motto or crest. I wonder if there ever was a family in your area with the name. France (originally from Scotland) Lyon Register. This is from The British herald, or Cabinet of armorial bearings of the nobility & gentry book.

    I saw some dates from the late 1700's, but then I can get my family crest put on things right now. Finding history in your area would give a better time period.
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  4. #4
    Gold Member del's Avatar
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    Colonial Relic Hunting with the DFX and TDI sl
    the back mark dates the button to
    1852-1875
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand London
    & 13 Conduit St

    it was most likely a livery button
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." George Washington
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  5. #5
    Platinum Member THing4CSA's Avatar
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    First of all that is one very nice button! Congrats! The backmark Firmin & Sons dates back to 1823. From the description I found in the button reference book; 'American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates' by William F. McGuinn and Bruce S. Bazelon. Firmin & Sons produced buttons for the US Military in 1820-30 and to both the Union and Confederate Military during the Civil War. I believe it to be Military just unable to nail this down.
    This is one very nice find!
    Dave

  6. #6
    Guru Steveo's Avatar
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    A really nice old button ya got there Larry.......... I know that for sure and that's about all I know.............
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  7. #7
    Gold Member bob@northeast's Avatar
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    hi giant, buttons like this we commonly refer to as 1812 buttons since this was the 1st. time they had makers marks on the reverse. yours is particularly interesting since it's uses a military motif but i have to go with livery button with the family crest on the button. circa 1817---great find. bob@northeast

  8. #8
    Senior Member Napper's Avatar
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    Hi Giant, Defo a Livery Button with a Rumsey Crest....Rumsey is a community in YOLO County, California, zip code 95679 area code 530...Rumsey was originally called Rock it changed to Rumsey in 1888...Named after Captain D.C.Rumsey who owned the land at that time...You will have to do some research on your side of the pond to track the Captain down....This button may be the Captains crest....

    There is now a new Livery button web site (link below)...You will find a piccy of your button on there, use th LH side column of the site & click on BIRDS OF PREY you will see your button about 2 thirds down on that page....You can also e mail a piccy of your button to the web site owner who may be able to help you further....

    Link to Livery Buttons https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/

    Hope this helps regards Napper

  9. #9
    Exalted One giant056's Avatar
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    Napper the button on that site looks like a 2 piece button but it does have a crest just like mine, thanks.

    here's what a guy on tnet posted

    Originally Posted by TheCannonballGuy Your button is a Livery button, showing the motto and "Family Crest" of the Ramsey family in Britain. Ramsay Surname Meaning, Ramsay Name History, Ramsay Crests, Coat of Arms & Genealogy : MyFamilySilver.com

    Your 1-piece brass button with backmark saying "Firmin & Sons / 153 Strand / London / 13 Conduit St" dates it to being from 1823 through the 1830s.
    Last edited by giant056; 01-22-2013 at 04:40 AM.

  10. #10
    Gold Member del's Avatar
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    Colonial Relic Hunting with the DFX and TDI sl
    Larry , heres the list off the U.K. DATA BASE for Firmin look it up your self
    FIRMIN Date(s)
    Name
    Address
    Related Information

    1677




    Company established in London this year by Thomas Firming (sic).
    Address: Three Kings’ Court

    1763-1768
    Samuel Firmin
    Opposite New Church


    1769-1782
    1771
    1770’s – early 1790’s
    Samuel Firmin
    Near Somerset House


    1770s – early 1790’s
    S F
    Near Somerset House


    1771-1780
    S Firmin
    Strand


    1783-1796
    1875
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand
    Livery buttons (c. early-mid 19th C)

    1793
    Samuel Firmin
    153 Strand


    1793-1796
    Samuel Firmin
    Strand London


    1794-1812
    Firmin & Westall
    153 Strand London


    1794-1812
    1797-1799
    1797-1811
    Firmin & Westall

    .

    1800
    c.1800-1811
    Firmin & Co



    Early 19th C
    Firmin & Co
    London
    Plain gilt buttons

    1811-1821
    1815-1823
    Firmin & Langdale



    1812
    1812-1814
    Philip Firmin



    1815-1821
    Firmin & Langdale
    153 Strand &
    10 Clare Court


    1822-1828
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand &
    10 Clare Court


    1824
    1839
    1853
    1850’s-1875
    Firmin & Sons



    c.1825
    Firmin
    Strand London


    1826
    Robert Firmin
    153 Strand & Clare Court, Drury Lane


    1826
    Robert Firmin



    1829-1834
    P & R Firmin
    153 Strand & White Horse Yard


    1835-1837
    P R & S Firmin
    153 Strand & White Horse Yard


    1837
    P & S Firmin




    P & S Firmin
    153 Strand London


    1838
    Firmin & King



    1838
    Firmin & King
    153 Strand &13 Conduit St


    1839
    Samuel Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand & White Horse Yard


    1839
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand & White Horse Yard, Drury Lane


    1839-1849
    Philip & Samuel Firmin
    153 Strand &
    13 Conduit St


    1841
    Philip & Samuel Firmin



    1850-1854
    Philip Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand &13 Conduit St


    1852-1875
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand London
    & 13 Conduit St
    Types include American Civil War buttons


    Firmin & Sons
    13 Conduit St London


    1855
    P V Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand & 13 Conduit St


    Mid 19th C
    Late 19th C
    Firmin & Sons
    London
    Two-hole buttons

    1856-1860
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand & 13 Conduit St
    Livery buttons

    1861-1863
    Firmin & Sons
    153-154 Strand &
    13 Conduit Street


    1864-1879
    Firmin & Sons
    153-155 Strand &
    13 Conduit Street


    1875
    Firmin & Sons
    153 Strand London


    1875






    Firm became a Ltd company and occupied these addresses:
    153 Strand &
    13 Conduit Street &
    12 White Horse Yard &
    20 Stanhope Street, Clare Market

    1876-1894
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    153 Strand London
    Livery buttons

    1876-1894
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    135 Strand London
    Error in address: 135 for 153

    1879-1904
    Firmins
    47 Warwick Street W London


    c.1880-1904
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    47 Warwick St, Regent St London
    Livery buttons

    1880-1894
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    153 Strand & 47 Warwick St London


    1880-1894
    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    153-155 Strand &
    47 Warwick Street



    Firmin & Sons Ld
    155 Strand, London
    Livery buttons

    1882-
    Firmin
    London & Birmingham


    1882-
    Firmin’s
    London & B’ham


    1882-
    Firmin Ltd
    London & Birmingham


    1882-
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    Birmingham


    1882-
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    Halesowen


    1884-
    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    London Patent 2346


    1894


    Company moved from Strand to 108 & 109 St Martins Lane

    After 1894




    Company opened in Globe Works, Hockley, Birmingham, 6 Warwick Street

    1895-1904
    Firmin & Sons
    108-109 St Martins Lane & 47 Warwick Street


    1895-1915
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    St Martins Lane London


    1895-1915
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    108 St Martins Lane, London


    Early 20th C
    Firmin & Sons Ld
    London


    Early 20th C
    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    London


    1905-1915
    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    108-109 St Martins Lane &
    6 Warwick Street



    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    6 Warwick St.
    Regent St London


    1915




    Company moved to Cork Street, which became head office and sole London address

    1916-1968
    Firmin & Sons Ltd
    8 Cork Street


    20th C
    Firmins Ltd
    London


    Mid 20th C
    Firmin
    London


    Mid 20th C
    Firmin
    England


    1968


    81 Ford Road became head office in London

    1971


    Birmingham factory moved from Globe Works to New Town Row
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." George Washington
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    best finds - George Washington Inaugural Button
    early U.S. militia hat plate
    6 coin colonial copper spill (4x 1787 fugios , 1774 machin mill ,1788 NJ )

  11. #11
    Guru Thorim's Avatar
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    Great find Larry
    I would rather be lucky then good....

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  12. #12
    Gold Member sh4rkbyt3's Avatar
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    Very nice find and in such great shape too! Would ave to call that one an absolute keeper !

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